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Relaunch into Mental Wellbeing: Shattering Stigmas and Embracing Self-Empowerment

Meet Anna Marcolin, a psychotherapist and life coach with a remarkable story of overcoming depression and transforming her life. Her journey is a testament to resilience and the power of the human spirit. Anna shares how she battled clinical depression, found solace in running, and how this coping mechanism soon morphed into an addiction. But her tale doesn’t end there. She also unveils her unique approach towards helping clients break free from trauma and limitation, and how she inspires them to chase after the life they desire.

Our discourse also illuminates the power of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for improving mental well-being. We share real-life examples and personal experiences to demonstrate how CBT can transform common thought distortions. This episode equips you with the skills to challenge your thoughts, retrain your thinking, and apply these techniques in your everyday life. Remember that it’s often the smallest actions that lead to the most significant changes.

Join us on this inspiring journey as we discover the truth in life, emphasize the present moment, and continuously strive for self-improvement.

About our Guest:

As a psychotherapist and life coach, Anna Marcolin has built a thriving private practice over the past 25 years. In addition to working with clients one-on-one, she has also spoken to companies across the country from billion dollar giants like Amazon to small businesses making a big impact. Anna has helped hundreds of people heal from trauma, break through limiting thoughts and confidently go after the life they want through her evidence-based, holistic approach. She engages clients and audiences quickly with her unique ability to connect with authenticity, empathy and humor. Anna is not your average therapist; she’s more like a personal trainer for your mind.

After raising 5 kids and more dogs than you can count, Anna has seen it all. With an unwavering belief that every human being deserves a deeply fulfilling life, Anna meets everyone where they are and gives them the tools they need to truly thrive.

https://www.annamarcolin.com/

Join our private Facebook community for BONUS content to ignite your own Relaunch: https://www.facebook.com/groups/232280334811612 

Interested in being a guest on the ReLaunch Podcast or booking Hilary as a guest? Email us at hello@therelaunchco.com

Find Us on Your Favorite Podcast App – https://the-silver-lined-relaunch.captivate.fm/listen

The ReLaunch Your Magic Retreat is the ultimate event that will guide you in manifesting a heightened level of success even if your entrepreneurial spirit has fizzled out. Register now at: https://www.therelaunchcocourses.com/ReLaunch-Your-Magic

Transcript
Hilary DeCesare:

All right, welcome back to the ReLaunch

Hilary DeCesare:

podcast. And again, what I am delivering to you is potentially

Hilary DeCesare:

new ways to think about some of the relaunches that are

Hilary DeCesare:

happening in our lives and have some great, incredible takeaways

Hilary DeCesare:

that you can start to actually incorporate into your life that

Hilary DeCesare:

will inspire you, that will give you that like, okay, hey, if she

Hilary DeCesare:

could do it, I can do it. And that's really where we are.

Hilary DeCesare:

today. I have got an incredible, an incredible guy that I'm super

Hilary DeCesare:

excited to bring to you. Her name is Anna Marcolin, and she

Hilary DeCesare:

is a psycho therapist. She is a life coach. And she has built a

Hilary DeCesare:

thriving private practice over the past 25 years. But in

Hilary DeCesare:

addition to working with clients one on one, she's also spoken to

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companies across the country, from those billion dollar giants

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like Amazon to small businesses making a big impact. And that's

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really what I love because she gets kind of she has the both

Hilary DeCesare:

both worlds that she can bring perspectives and and I know that

Hilary DeCesare:

there's a lot of our listeners that are in both. And Anna has

Hilary DeCesare:

helped hundreds of people heal probably more like 1000s To be

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perfectly is from trauma, breakthrough limiting thoughts

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and confidently, confidently is the key go after the life that

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they want through her evidence based, holistic approach. This

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is what really ignites me to she engages clients and audiences

Hilary DeCesare:

quickly with her unique ability to connect with authenticity,

Hilary DeCesare:

empathy, and she's got a great sense of humor. She is not your

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average therapist, which you will find today. She's more like

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a personal trainer for your mind. And you know what we all

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need that she's raised five kids. And you know what loves

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those dogs. She's, she's seen it all at this point. And today,

Hilary DeCesare:

she is going to give us so many great takeaways.

Hilary DeCesare:

You're listening to the ReLaunch podcast and I'm your host,

Hilary DeCesare:

Hilary DeCesare, best selling author, speaker and

Hilary DeCesare:

transformational coach widely recognized in the worlds of

Hilary DeCesare:

neuro psychology and business launches, which cultivated the

Hilary DeCesare:

one and only three HQ method helping midlife women. Yep,

Hilary DeCesare:

that's me to rebuild a life of purpose, possibility and

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inspiring business ventures. Each week, we'll be diving into

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the stories that brought upon the most inspirational

Hilary DeCesare:

relaunches while sharing the methods and the secrets that

Hilary DeCesare:

they learned along the way, so that you too can have not just

Hilary DeCesare:

an ordinary relaunch, but an extraordinary relaunch.

Hilary DeCesare:

Anna, thank you for being on the show. And I am pinching myself

Hilary DeCesare:

because I have talked to you, I have admired you. And I know

Hilary DeCesare:

that you are going to be the traitor we all need today in

Hilary DeCesare:

this segment. So thanks again for being on the relaunch show.

Anna Marcolin:

Thanks so much for having me, Hillary that was

Anna Marcolin:

just a wonderful introduction. So I am a wow, I'm like a little

Anna Marcolin:

bowled over by listening to you talk about me a little bit.

Hilary DeCesare:

Yeah, fine to hear somebody actually, you

Hilary DeCesare:

know, describe and you're like, oh my gosh, have I really done

Hilary DeCesare:

all this? And yes, I did survive and thrive and I'm in your now

Hilary DeCesare:

you're delivering you're like now bringing it to people that

Hilary DeCesare:

are so hungry to really understand how to uplevel

Hilary DeCesare:

themselves and get past some of the things that have really and

Hilary DeCesare:

hey, I'm raising my hand right now, the relaunches that go down

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in our lives that we think like are unsurmountable

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insurmountable, and be able to tackle them. So I would love to

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have you start with your own personal journey of what the

Hilary DeCesare:

most significant relaunch has been for you so that our

Hilary DeCesare:

listeners can really appreciate where are you Where are you

Hilary DeCesare:

started? And what happened?

Anna Marcolin:

Yeah, so thank you for that question. So my

Anna Marcolin:

relaunch was a personal one. It was one that started 20 Wow,

Anna Marcolin:

started in well started in 2004. So yeah, it's gonna be 20 years

Anna Marcolin:

coming up.

Hilary DeCesare:

How fast it goes, right. It's

Anna Marcolin:

a little scary. I'm dating myself by saying that

Anna Marcolin:

because I was in my early 30s married with three small

Anna Marcolin:

children. I I was married to the man that I went to college with

Anna Marcolin:

my boyfriend all through college since I was 18 years old had

Anna Marcolin:

been together. And I continued to date him when I moved to

Anna Marcolin:

Chicago. He was at a job that only took could take place in

Anna Marcolin:

the, in Chicago in the trading business, and I was in graduate

Anna Marcolin:

school here, got married at 24 and had my first child at 25.

Anna Marcolin:

When I was 31, I woke up it was almost like my therapist at the

Anna Marcolin:

time said you're a little young for this, but you're going

Anna Marcolin:

through a midlife crisis. I will show you

Hilary DeCesare:

what that what did it look like for you?

Anna Marcolin:

A clinical depression, a clinical

Anna Marcolin:

depression, barely able to get myself out of bed. And it also

Anna Marcolin:

it was just interesting. It's there's two pieces to it, it was

Anna Marcolin:

depression. And also a total over involvement in chronic I

Anna Marcolin:

became, I started running after my second was born and always

Anna Marcolin:

been an athlete. But I got back into running my two old my two

Anna Marcolin:

sisters were running together, I'm from the Washington DC area,

Anna Marcolin:

they lived in the area. And they I was a little jealous because

Anna Marcolin:

they were running all these five and 10 K's together. And I could

Anna Marcolin:

not imagine somebody could run six miles, I just could not

Anna Marcolin:

figure that out. So of course, me being the competitive person

Anna Marcolin:

that I am. I wanted to start doing the same thing as them.

Anna Marcolin:

And so I really got into running. So the way I dealt with

Anna Marcolin:

waking up one day, and realizing what have I done was a running

Anna Marcolin:

all the time. It was like an addiction for me. And at the

Anna Marcolin:

same time I became very depressed. The depression was

Anna Marcolin:

would build and build and build to the point where I could

Anna Marcolin:

barely run because my legs felt like tree trunks. So there were

Anna Marcolin:

two things that were going on that was escaping my life,

Anna Marcolin:

basically running in metaphor.

Hilary DeCesare:

Yeah, it's running. What I want to get back

Hilary DeCesare:

to the running was a metaphor. But I want to ask you, a you

Hilary DeCesare:

know, it's interesting, because people are taught that exercise

Hilary DeCesare:

allows for the endorphins. And that helps with depression, and

Hilary DeCesare:

it keeps you but yet this wasn't this this wasn't happening. As

Hilary DeCesare:

you said it felt like two tree trunks. It was not, it wasn't

Hilary DeCesare:

doing what it's supposed to do. And you said it was more like,

Hilary DeCesare:

it feels like it was more like an addiction. You were like

Hilary DeCesare:

doing it and doing it and you had to go out and do it. What

Hilary DeCesare:

was happening here,

Anna Marcolin:

I was staying distracted from the feelings

Anna Marcolin:

that were deep inside of me that were trying to percolate to the

Anna Marcolin:

surface. And I would not allow it. So if I could just run and

Anna Marcolin:

run six days a week and run hard, I could stay distracted if

Anna Marcolin:

I could stay focused on goals with a 10k or a half marathon or

Anna Marcolin:

a marathon that I could say distracted from what was really

Anna Marcolin:

going on deep down inside me but that I was so afraid to look at,

Anna Marcolin:

I knew that I couldn't even imagine or Fathom at that time

Anna Marcolin:

that I knew I would blow up my life. If I if I sat still and

Anna Marcolin:

thought and felt my feelings. I knew what would happen at some

Anna Marcolin:

level. So just keep on running. Just keep on running. And what's

Anna Marcolin:

interesting to me and I always push back when I hear this in

Anna Marcolin:

podcasts, especially a podcast from an I say to exercise is a

Anna Marcolin:

very important piece of mental health. And I push all my

Anna Marcolin:

clients therapy and coaching to engage in some form of exercise

Anna Marcolin:

body movement. However, for someone like me who is moving

Anna Marcolin:

into a clinical depression, that I could only be diagnosed by a

Anna Marcolin:

therapist or a psychiatrists. People like me, those people

Anna Marcolin:

need something different. They need to continue to move their

Anna Marcolin:

body but they need psychotherapy and they may need meds. And for

Anna Marcolin:

me, what ended up happening years later was I went on

Anna Marcolin:

antidepressant was a game changer for me and my mental

Anna Marcolin:

health as you

Hilary DeCesare:

as you're going into this for those listening.

Hilary DeCesare:

What is the difference between clinical depression and

Hilary DeCesare:

depression?

Anna Marcolin:

Yeah, good question. So there many of us go

Anna Marcolin:

through situational depressions, we maybe there's a depression or

Anna Marcolin:

postpartum depression, postpartum baby blues, that

Anna Marcolin:

could be a situational depression. Now that is hormonal

Anna Marcolin:

II related but it's one that maybe lasts for, you know, two

Anna Marcolin:

weeks, three weeks, four weeks after a baby is born. But then

Anna Marcolin:

we start to go back to air quote, normal our normal selves.

Anna Marcolin:

A clinical depression is you must meet the clinical criteria.

Anna Marcolin:

In the DSM five, which is our Bible and my field Diagnostic

Anna Marcolin:

and Statistical Manual of psychiatric illnesses. You must

Anna Marcolin:

meet criteria, there's about nine you have to meet about six

Anna Marcolin:

out of nine, to receive a diagnosis of a major other mood

Anna Marcolin:

disorder, which could be a major depressive disorder can be a

Anna Marcolin:

bipolar, it could be cyclothymic, all different types

Anna Marcolin:

of mood disorders out there. So I saw somebody and received the

Anna Marcolin:

diagnosis. I already knew I had it, but I received a diagnosis

Anna Marcolin:

and that's what put me on the med. So most of us go through

Anna Marcolin:

situational depression, life is not a bowl of cherries, right?

Anna Marcolin:

We're gonna get sad and down from time to time. But we have

Anna Marcolin:

coping skills in place that we can deal with it. For many of us

Anna Marcolin:

it is going for a run, maybe it is going to a yoga class, maybe

Anna Marcolin:

it is going getting a massage, maybe it's going and seeing your

Anna Marcolin:

therapist once a week. And we call those people, which is

Anna Marcolin:

mostly what we are the worried well, where are the worried?

Anna Marcolin:

Well, we're pretty weak, we were able to or well, huh, does that

Anna Marcolin:

make that up that?

Hilary DeCesare:

It does, but I want to I want to ask a

Hilary DeCesare:

question. Because you're right, we all have bouts of things that

Hilary DeCesare:

happen that causes us to be depressed. And there's a lot of,

Hilary DeCesare:

and I love that you're approaching this in such a way,

Hilary DeCesare:

there's a lot of, you know, bad information out there, we just,

Hilary DeCesare:

you got to think positive again, you got to be happy and right.

Hilary DeCesare:

And, you know, last week, I was running on fumes. We've had a

Hilary DeCesare:

lot of amazing things happening. But I was just, I was really

Hilary DeCesare:

burning it hard. And I woke up one day. And you know, I had

Hilary DeCesare:

gotten this email that something I thought was gonna happen

Hilary DeCesare:

wasn't gonna happen. And I just was like, you know, I just went

Hilary DeCesare:

into this. And we had to, we were supposed to have a launch

Hilary DeCesare:

in December, and just everything just, we can't make it happen.

Hilary DeCesare:

There's too many things that we're still addressing it was we

Hilary DeCesare:

pushed it off to January. And I was just like, oh, like, ah, and

Hilary DeCesare:

I sat there. And I thought, you know, it's okay. To be exactly

Hilary DeCesare:

where I am right now. Yeah, there's a lot going on. I don't

Hilary DeCesare:

need to sit there and say everything's great. Like, I

Hilary DeCesare:

didn't write

Anna Marcolin:

it. Anyway. So I

Hilary DeCesare:

go back to you know, as a concept that I know,

Hilary DeCesare:

you know, the three HQ and part three HQ head, heart, high self

Hilary DeCesare:

in the, in the heart. You know, there was a lot of times that I

Hilary DeCesare:

didn't feel like I liked myself at all, there was like, you

Hilary DeCesare:

know, hey, going on deep inside me. And to go, you know, jump

Hilary DeCesare:

over the, the Grand Canyon to go to love. I couldn't do it. Like,

Hilary DeCesare:

it just wasn't possible, I had to kind of go to like, first so

Hilary DeCesare:

I could go from not like, really hate to like to love. But I want

Hilary DeCesare:

people to really realize, and sometimes it takes a day to get

Hilary DeCesare:

over. Sometimes it takes more. When do you feel because I want

Hilary DeCesare:

people to feel like they, you know, they've got to give

Hilary DeCesare:

themselves grace, that they don't have to, you know, I

Hilary DeCesare:

talked about the tune in process of being able to pop yourself

Hilary DeCesare:

out when you need it, like through the day. And I had to do

Hilary DeCesare:

that when I was feeling like, you know, crap. Things are

Hilary DeCesare:

really not that great right now. I could do it, I could do a tune

Hilary DeCesare:

in, boom, pop myself up for one meeting. And I was like, okay,

Hilary DeCesare:

but I'm still not there. I was I brought myself for that quick

Hilary DeCesare:

moment. But when do you know that it's more serious than this

Hilary DeCesare:

is just a phase. I

Anna Marcolin:

think when you are you get off your routines,

Anna Marcolin:

and you find that you're struggling, you're not

Anna Marcolin:

motivated. And you're struggling to get back into what it is that

Anna Marcolin:

normally brings you joy. So we do look at you know, we call it

Anna Marcolin:

an Adonia. It's a loss of join us a loss of joy in life. So

Anna Marcolin:

that's something that we really get very concerned about when we

Anna Marcolin:

were starting to think and maybe that's a clinical depression.

Anna Marcolin:

Now, there was a time period, it must go on for a certain period

Anna Marcolin:

of time. It's not just a week, it's not even two weeks, it's

Anna Marcolin:

longer than that there's there's a pattern that you can't seem to

Anna Marcolin:

pull yourself up out of. That's where we started to get

Anna Marcolin:

concerned, there's something a little bit more serious going

Anna Marcolin:

on. And is that when is that is that when you knew with your

Anna Marcolin:

legs feeling like they were trunks, and you said that

Anna Marcolin:

running became a metaphor.

Hilary DeCesare:

What what happened? You

Anna Marcolin:

know, it's interesting, I was a therapist

Anna Marcolin:

at that time, I had not been coaching, but I had just started

Anna Marcolin:

so I was my early 30s I just started my private practice. And

Anna Marcolin:

I at some level was the worst client or patient because I

Anna Marcolin:

ignored all of what I knew was going on deep inside of me

Anna Marcolin:

because I just couldn't bear it I had been in therapy with with

Anna Marcolin:

someone who was not a fit. It's interesting because I'm a

Anna Marcolin:

therapist, and I had had terrible therapy experiences

Anna Marcolin:

myself, which is like anybody who tells me they've had Baddeck

Anna Marcolin:

therapy experiences I'm like, all right with you. I'm right

Anna Marcolin:

there with you, girl, because I'm there too and I'll get there

Hilary DeCesare:

I gotta tell you I have two young my divorce

Hilary DeCesare:

I went to and I did some things and oh my gosh, I ran into some

Hilary DeCesare:

really bad ones. I'm like home.

Anna Marcolin:

I'm like, and if I'm a therapist, and this can

Anna Marcolin:

happen to me and I'm you know, I'm your colleagues and my poor

Anna Marcolin:

other people out there who come to me like yeah, so that's

Anna Marcolin:

that's a we could have another discussion about that, but But

Anna Marcolin:

yeah, but I think that so for me at the time, I just went into

Anna Marcolin:

this deep, deep denial. And I also denied my depression. I saw

Anna Marcolin:

what was happening, but I thought to myself, well, I'm

Anna Marcolin:

still running. I'm still running five days a week. I It's okay,

Anna Marcolin:

it's not that bad. It's not that bad. It just was. I didn't want

Anna Marcolin:

to see what was happening. And so, you know, it wasn't till

Anna Marcolin:

this is probably a year later that I finally was really

Anna Marcolin:

struggling with getting out of bed. And the only reason why I

Anna Marcolin:

got out of bed was because I had three people that I had to get

Anna Marcolin:

off to school and I had to feed that. But I didn't

Hilary DeCesare:

have those gaily. Were you a single mom at

Hilary DeCesare:

that point? Had you gotten divorced? No,

Anna Marcolin:

I was not. No, I was depressed and aren't very

Anna Marcolin:

unhappily married. And everybody around me knew it. My, my

Anna Marcolin:

parents, my in laws, my husband at the time, everybody knew

Anna Marcolin:

something's up with her. There's something wrong. There's

Anna Marcolin:

something wrong with her. But you know, it's interesting,

Anna Marcolin:

because I would hear people would say to Me, Physician, heal

Anna Marcolin:

Thyself. Take the heal yourself. Take, what are you gonna do

Anna Marcolin:

here, go take care of yourself. So I was trying, but I was

Anna Marcolin:

trying to not use meds which that was changed a lot within me

Anna Marcolin:

at that, from 20 years ago was that even though as a therapist,

Anna Marcolin:

I was really not really a big proponent of anti psychotropic

Anna Marcolin:

drugs, even though I knew it worked for other people. Because

Anna Marcolin:

I had worked inpatient psych, I'd worked in partial

Anna Marcolin:

hospitalization for eating disorders. That was my specialty

Anna Marcolin:

at the time, eating disorders. I thought, well, I'm different. I

Anna Marcolin:

don't I don't need meds like they do. Okay, I'll be the first

Anna Marcolin:

to admit I, I thought I was a little better than I'm stronger

Anna Marcolin:

than that. I don't need meds. i My patients love my patients.

Anna Marcolin:

But I don't need meds like they do. And that was what came out

Anna Marcolin:

of the story of my divorce was, I was humbled. And the shame

Anna Marcolin:

came in. The guilt came in when I walked away from my marriage.

Anna Marcolin:

And everybody in my family and friends walked away from me. And

Anna Marcolin:

I mean, everyone because I grew up in a very devoutly Catholic

Anna Marcolin:

family. And you know, yep, you don't get divorce unless you're

Anna Marcolin:

being hit. My mom said, unless you're being hit or eaten

Anna Marcolin:

alcoholic, you'll get divorced. And it just no one cared. I

Anna Marcolin:

mean, no one cared. So it was, you know, take care of yourself.

Anna Marcolin:

Clean yourself up. And that's what I tried to do. But I also

Anna Marcolin:

was not really proponent of meds for me, which looking back now

Anna Marcolin:

was just, I don't know, it was my younger self, my younger

Anna Marcolin:

self.

Hilary DeCesare:

Well, you now say rocking the skin you live

Hilary DeCesare:

in? Yeah. Right. So you ended up taking the medication, which

Hilary DeCesare:

literally changed everything for you

Anna Marcolin:

changed everything. For me, it allowed

Anna Marcolin:

me so it's interesting, because at the time, I thought God was

Anna Marcolin:

playing a cruel joke on me because I was now had to go back

Anna Marcolin:

to work. Because I needed health insurance. I was living losing

Anna Marcolin:

my health insurance because I was my husband at that time

Anna Marcolin:

period, the insurance. So I was in my practice, part time I

Anna Marcolin:

needed to now filled out with another part time or full time

Anna Marcolin:

job. I didn't know how I was going to do it. I went back into

Anna Marcolin:

the hospital system into counseling, and I got a job

Anna Marcolin:

working with cancer patients in a very large oncology clinic.

Anna Marcolin:

And here I was in the throes of the Depression. And at that

Anna Marcolin:

time, I was on meds. And if I was not on those meds, I don't

Anna Marcolin:

know how it would have been able to have served my patients

Anna Marcolin:

because all my I was referred all the they're all stage four

Anna Marcolin:

terminal patients and their families. I would not have been

Anna Marcolin:

able to have done that work going through this horrible

Anna Marcolin:

depression, horrible, bitter divorce. If I wasn't on meds, it

Anna Marcolin:

got me through it created a floor that I would not follow.

Anna Marcolin:

So it was game changing and life saving for me and I wanted to on

Anna Marcolin:

I was on it was on it was sertraline, Zoloft. I was on it

Anna Marcolin:

for about five years. And I have not been on it since but thank

Anna Marcolin:

God for those drugs. Lamesa.

Hilary DeCesare:

So you're saying that you're not on

Hilary DeCesare:

anything now? No,

Anna Marcolin:

I haven't been on since probably 2000. Not? Not

Anna Marcolin:

nine that would

Hilary DeCesare:

you say that you call yourself you know that

Hilary DeCesare:

that personal trainer for the mind? You know you what happened

Hilary DeCesare:

there that you were allowed to that you felt I can I no longer

Hilary DeCesare:

need to take the medication

Anna Marcolin:

I was doing so I just Well, I had been in

Anna Marcolin:

psychotherapy twice a week for a years.

Hilary DeCesare:

Hello. Psychosis tell us psychotherapy

Hilary DeCesare:

versus regular therapy. What is that? It's

Anna Marcolin:

the same it's the same, they're interchangeable.

Anna Marcolin:

So psychotherapy sometimes when I say therapy, people have said

Anna Marcolin:

to me So are you a physical therapist. That's the only

Anna Marcolin:

reason why I say that because I'm not a physio or physical

Anna Marcolin:

therapist and a psychotherapist counsellor, mental health

Anna Marcolin:

person. I was so I was on meds and the meds helped me do the

Anna Marcolin:

deep work that I would probably not have been able to have done

Anna Marcolin:

if I had not been on meds because it depression can go so

Anna Marcolin:

low that sometimes you your brain. You can't think straight

Anna Marcolin:

to even do the deep work. So it's on meds with a psychiatry

Anna Marcolin:

Here's who's a colleague of mine that I knew. And he was he was,

Anna Marcolin:

you know, managing that and, and prescribing my antidepressant

Anna Marcolin:

started like 20 went up to visit 50 than 7575 is too much, we're

Anna Marcolin:

back down to 50 stayed at 50 for a while, then 20 or 25 for a few

Anna Marcolin:

years. But that allowed me to be in therapy twice a week, and

Anna Marcolin:

really do that deep dive work that I needed to do family of

Anna Marcolin:

origin stuff started to come up in a child work that I needed to

Anna Marcolin:

do. And that allowed me to be more available to my children

Anna Marcolin:

and my patients, and my clients in my office, because I was

Anna Marcolin:

doing the work I needed to do, and then it freed me up. So here

Anna Marcolin:

I can be available emotionally available to my children. And in

Anna Marcolin:

the moment. And in the present moment I can listen to I could

Anna Marcolin:

do a family session with someone who's in hospice now and die, I

Anna Marcolin:

could completely pour myself into into that. Because I was

Anna Marcolin:

taking care of myself.

Hilary DeCesare:

I love that. And so how are you doing this?

Hilary DeCesare:

What exactly is this personal trainer of the mind? Like, what

Hilary DeCesare:

are the steps? Yeah, so like, you start working with somebody,

Hilary DeCesare:

and you're finding that they're stuck. They're just not happy

Hilary DeCesare:

with their life right now? What do you do?

Anna Marcolin:

So you right, so to answer your previous question

Anna Marcolin:

I didn't, I was did not directly answer it. All this time, I had

Anna Marcolin:

been using the skills of cognitive behavioral therapy

Anna Marcolin:

with my clients. And that's something that I learned in the

Anna Marcolin:

90s when I was first in practice. And actually, first

Anna Marcolin:

when I worked in eating disorders, I had to learn this

Anna Marcolin:

therapy because I was going to be running groups on CBT with

Anna Marcolin:

the patients and I very quickly had to learn it and since then

Anna Marcolin:

have advanced certifications in it. That's where I'm a personal

Anna Marcolin:

trainer for the mind, because most people don't realize that

Anna Marcolin:

all of us and I mean, all of us have been helpful thought

Anna Marcolin:

patterns. And we call them with thought distortion. So mind

Anna Marcolin:

reading, black and white thinking catastrophizing

Anna Marcolin:

situations, in a lance, we'd know how to disentangle our

Anna Marcolin:

thoughts. We say there, we don't know how to not catastrophize

Anna Marcolin:

because that's all we've done. So when I was going through my

Anna Marcolin:

divorce, and I was on meds and stuff, and and in psychotherapy,

Anna Marcolin:

I also knew about the skills of CBT, right, because I taught it,

Anna Marcolin:

so had to once I started feeling a little bit better, I had to

Anna Marcolin:

bring them in and deploy that.

Hilary DeCesare:

For those that don't know about cognitive

Hilary DeCesare:

behavioral therapy, just very, like, just give us a little bit

Hilary DeCesare:

of what that is. So

Anna Marcolin:

what the work I do with with clients is we all

Anna Marcolin:

have thoughts, or we have thoughts that don't help us. So

Anna Marcolin:

while we're here, a client and I do this with my coaching

Anna Marcolin:

clients, too, I think everybody needs to learn this. So I'll

Anna Marcolin:

have a client say to me, you know, I had that presentation,

Anna Marcolin:

that staff meeting and you know, I really, I really should have

Anna Marcolin:

said this I really should have said that so here we go. These

Anna Marcolin:

are thought distortion scores are staying the shoulds and what

Anna Marcolin:

I say to my clients is don't show it on yourself right so we

Anna Marcolin:

what we do especially women will do this we beat ourselves up for

Anna Marcolin:

showed this show that or our client will say something to me

Anna Marcolin:

like oh my god, you know, I had this me and my my best friend,

Anna Marcolin:

we got into this little dumb little argument with a thought

Anna Marcolin:

it was dumb argument, but now she's mad at me. I know she's

Anna Marcolin:

mad at me. She's not texting me back. I think it's over. So

Anna Marcolin:

first of all your mind reading? Number two, your show is good.

Hilary DeCesare:

Do we claim to be mind? reader's? Yes. Yes.

Anna Marcolin:

You know, we mind read that it's over. She's

Anna Marcolin:

really mad at me. And then and number two are totally

Anna Marcolin:

catastrophizing. So I teach my clients, how to reframe the

Anna Marcolin:

thinking. And one of the takeaways for your listeners is,

Anna Marcolin:

if this cut well not if when it comes up for you, because it

Anna Marcolin:

will come up for you always look for the evidence of your

Anna Marcolin:

thoughts. So we can retrain our thinking and that's why I'm a

Anna Marcolin:

personal trainer for the mind, because everybody needs to know

Anna Marcolin:

this. These are wonderful life skills.

Hilary DeCesare:

Avid, have your thoughts? Yes. So true. Is it

Hilary DeCesare:

reality or is it your perspective? Yes,

Anna Marcolin:

right. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's,

Anna Marcolin:

I mean, every day I do this, you know, and I never get bored of

Anna Marcolin:

it. Because I love to see people light up like, Oh, I do do that.

Anna Marcolin:

You're right, I do that. There's a way that's just how I've

Anna Marcolin:

always thought like, I was a black and white thinker that

Anna Marcolin:

because of the family within which I was raised, very

Anna Marcolin:

religious, either that's a sin and that's not a sin. It's

Anna Marcolin:

either do it this way, or this is the way to do it. You don't

Anna Marcolin:

do it that way. There's no gray in life. And I learned CBT I

Anna Marcolin:

realized, oh, wait, there's a lot of gray. There's a lot of

Anna Marcolin:

gray and lives. It's not this or that. That was my I was like,

Anna Marcolin:

Whoa, that my mind was blowing up like really? So that shit

Anna Marcolin:

that has changed me as a person. It's changed my whole worldview,

Anna Marcolin:

really? Hey, there's Greg.

Hilary DeCesare:

Oh, so many of us be and especially when you

Hilary DeCesare:

talk about your beliefs, right beliefs are 100% true to you? I

Hilary DeCesare:

like that you're saying even today you're challenging

Hilary DeCesare:

yourself with where it you know, where's that thought? Where did

Hilary DeCesare:

that come from? Is that really? Is that really 100%? Do black or

Hilary DeCesare:

white? Or is there is there that gray,

Anna Marcolin:

even even something as simple as I was out

Anna Marcolin:

to dinner with a friend and I was strength training. So

Anna Marcolin:

fitness is a huge part today continuing a huge part of my

Anna Marcolin:

life. And it's about strength training, and I was doing it I

Anna Marcolin:

was kettlebell. This kettlebell six months saying, and I hurt my

Anna Marcolin:

hip. I was out to dinner with her eating sushi. And I'm like,

Anna Marcolin:

she's a physical therapist. And I was telling her that I did

Anna Marcolin:

something. I think I need a hip replacement. Oh, my God, I think

Anna Marcolin:

I need to replace but I can tell she finds it right in front of

Anna Marcolin:

her. She goes, Don't doubt. You don't have immunity to

Anna Marcolin:

everything. But she goes, you're fine. It was she was getting

Anna Marcolin:

annoyed. She goes, she goes and you're totally catastrophize and

Anna Marcolin:

you don't need it. She could calm down. It was like, go see

Anna Marcolin:

the orthopedic surgeon. I mean, I love her. But she's, you know,

Anna Marcolin:

she's very blunt with me. But I needed to hear that. I mean, she

Anna Marcolin:

kind of talked me down. She's like, go see Dr. Peak surgery,

Anna Marcolin:

you're probably fine, because you don't need a hip

Anna Marcolin:

replacement. She's like, do you see what you're doing? Like, oh,

Anna Marcolin:

yeah, I am really catastrophize worry that I'm turning into an

Anna Marcolin:

old lady. And I was fine. All I had to do was get on the foam

Anna Marcolin:

roller, and I was fine actually canceled my orthopedic surgery

Anna Marcolin:

appointment. So there you go. I still do it.

Hilary DeCesare:

I mean, but I liked that you're giving us you

Hilary DeCesare:

know these? Are we catastrophizing it? Are we

Hilary DeCesare:

saying black white instead of the gray? I mean, this is we do

Hilary DeCesare:

this, right. And so when you're working with clients, and for

Hilary DeCesare:

people, you know that that are starting to feel like Oh, my

Hilary DeCesare:

God, I am doing that, right. I do. catastrophize. And I have a

Hilary DeCesare:

dear friend who is now not traveling, because she's so

Hilary DeCesare:

freaked out about being on an airplane. And I, you know, I

Hilary DeCesare:

kind of pushed her and like, well, what, where did that stem

Hilary DeCesare:

from? Like, what happened? How do you we acknowledge that we

Hilary DeCesare:

are doing this? What besides just saying, Hey, we got the

Hilary DeCesare:

evidence. Alright, I now know, well, I feel this way because,

Hilary DeCesare:

but then what can we do? What's the next step? After we're like,

Hilary DeCesare:

Oh, my God, what she said, that's totally me. I'm doing

Hilary DeCesare:

that.

Anna Marcolin:

Right. There's, there's some different tactics

Anna Marcolin:

that I use with clients. So let's say for a mind reading,

Anna Marcolin:

that's a good one where you say, I know that she's not me. I

Anna Marcolin:

know, she thinks about me. So so look for the evidence, well,

Anna Marcolin:

okay, so we do a whole we call them thought records. So I take

Anna Marcolin:

a client through what we call a thought record, and we have we

Anna Marcolin:

really kind of deep deconstruct the entire situation. Sometimes

Anna Marcolin:

when we deconstruct a situation with somebody, and I'm on the

Anna Marcolin:

other end as the coach or the therapist going well, okay, so

Anna Marcolin:

your mind. Okay, mind reading, isn't there? Is it true? Do you

Anna Marcolin:

think it's true? Well, well, okay, now that I do the whole

Anna Marcolin:

situation, maybe, okay, maybe I'll was mind reading a little

Anna Marcolin:

bit, you know, so going through a thought record really does

Anna Marcolin:

take sort of takes a helium out of the balloon of our thinking,

Anna Marcolin:

in this case, mind reading, such

Hilary DeCesare:

a great way to say it and deconstruct again.

Hilary DeCesare:

Yeah, well, deconstruct

Anna Marcolin:

the situation. It really is helpful. And if

Anna Marcolin:

someone is still holding on to the thought, and they're saying

Anna Marcolin:

know what, Anna, no, I, I know that you I know, you're saying

Anna Marcolin:

this to me, and okay, but you know, I, I'm intuiting. And I

Anna Marcolin:

really do believe that she's mad at me. So here's what you have

Anna Marcolin:

to do. Number two, you need to go talk to her. Hey, are you mad

Anna Marcolin:

at me? I feel like when I said that to you the other day, and I

Anna Marcolin:

was challenged in my own practice and my own learning of

Anna Marcolin:

CBT to do this myself. So as an example, I had firmly believed

Anna Marcolin:

that one of my co workers was mad at me because we said I was

Anna Marcolin:

kind of snarky with her. I made a snarky sarcastic comment on

Anna Marcolin:

lunch one day, we're sitting in the staff room eating and you

Anna Marcolin:

know, she was she was a friend of mine outside of work as well.

Anna Marcolin:

And she sort of didn't, I didn't think anything of it at the

Anna Marcolin:

time. But the next day at work, I noticed she was a little cool

Anna Marcolin:

towards me and a little aloof. And I thought, Oh, I know why,

Anna Marcolin:

because I said that to her. And I should have said that I

Anna Marcolin:

probably crossed a boundary and she's annoyed with me. And I

Anna Marcolin:

held on to that for the whole week. And at same time, I was

Anna Marcolin:

learning CBT so I knew that and I would say I was telling myself

Anna Marcolin:

I was really holding on to my belief that mind reading that

Anna Marcolin:

she was mad at me. So number two, I had to go confront her

Anna Marcolin:

because all the the thought record wasn't working. And I did

Anna Marcolin:

it. It was so hard for me to do. I was nervous. I felt like it

Anna Marcolin:

was being weird about it. But I said hey, you know, Susie, I

Anna Marcolin:

made that comment to the day you're mad at me. It's just

Anna Marcolin:

like, What? What are you talking about? And I'm like, well, that

Anna Marcolin:

made that covenant let us know. Oh, she was oh my gosh, just

Anna Marcolin:

like Anna No, she's like Okay, she's like, my husband is being

Anna Marcolin:

audited right now. We just got we just got to work the IRS.

Anna Marcolin:

We're being audited. She's like, No, she's okay. It had nothing

Anna Marcolin:

to do with me.

Hilary DeCesare:

Dry this is, this is so amazing because yes,

Hilary DeCesare:

this happens to us where we just were the mind reader. We're

Hilary DeCesare:

like, oh my gosh, this, this happened not even two days ago

Hilary DeCesare:

for me as well, where I was like, oh my god, I heard

Hilary DeCesare:

something. And actually, I read it, which is even worse, right?

Hilary DeCesare:

Read into text messages, emails, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this

Hilary DeCesare:

thing's about to blow up. It's not gonna happen. I wonder what

Hilary DeCesare:

happened, what was going on? And I went through the whole like,

Hilary DeCesare:

like you said, I like and I kept going deeper and deeper.

Hilary DeCesare:

Finally, I'm like, wait a second. instead. I didn't let

Hilary DeCesare:

myself I didn't have time to waste because I was heading out

Hilary DeCesare:

of town. So I literally picked up the phone. I said, What did

Hilary DeCesare:

you mean by this? Good, totally misinterpreted, the whole thing.

Hilary DeCesare:

And I sat back and I'm like, Thank God, I

Anna Marcolin:

did this. There you go.

Hilary DeCesare:

It would have you know, spun me out, just

Hilary DeCesare:

spiraling

Anna Marcolin:

because you're spiraling. Right. And that's

Anna Marcolin:

what happens. We spiral and it was hard to do that. That was

Anna Marcolin:

far but it was so it was just a paradigm shift in thinking for

Anna Marcolin:

me. When I did that. It's

Hilary DeCesare:

so solid. I love you said that. But Anna, we

Hilary DeCesare:

got to wrap. Yeah, I know. Where can we send everyone so that

Hilary DeCesare:

they can get to know more of these awesome strategies that

Hilary DeCesare:

you have and and start to like, follow you? Where can they go?

Anna Marcolin:

Thanks so much. So you can find me on the

Anna Marcolin:

socials, tick tock and Instagram at askannamarcolin all one word

Anna Marcolin:

lowercase, you could find me on LinkedIn @AnnaMarcolin and my

Anna Marcolin:

podcast, the Badass Confidence Coach podcast where we're

Anna Marcolin:

talking about mental health wellness coaching tips every

Anna Marcolin:

week. So I'd love to have you all come in there and listen and

Anna Marcolin:

give me feedback. I'd love to hear from all of you. So thanks

Anna Marcolin:

for having me, Henry. And

Hilary DeCesare:

well, we're also going to have all of this

Hilary DeCesare:

in the show notes. And I am so excited because I'm also going

Hilary DeCesare:

to be on your show coming up. So looking forward to that. But

Hilary DeCesare:

again, thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us

Hilary DeCesare:

permission, to allow ourselves to feel our feelings to

Hilary DeCesare:

understand where they're coming from, understand these thoughts

Hilary DeCesare:

that can truly sabotage us and give us these incredible tips to

Hilary DeCesare:

actually say, Wait a second, where's the evidence? Where is

Hilary DeCesare:

the evidence? So what a great show and everyone out there?

Hilary DeCesare:

Really think about this, think about what you're doing in your

Hilary DeCesare:

own day to day and are you allowing things to just bring

Hilary DeCesare:

you down? Were one call one, you know, just just taking that next

Hilary DeCesare:

step to say, Hey, what did it mean? What was really going on?

Hilary DeCesare:

Are you okay, here? And then it's so amazing. And how often

Hilary DeCesare:

do you find out percentage wise that what you thought actually

Hilary DeCesare:

wasn't the case? Like you said with this gal? Like no, she was

Hilary DeCesare:

like, no, no, no, actually, this is how often does that usually

Hilary DeCesare:

happen? Today?

Anna Marcolin:

Not as much as it used to happen all the time.

Anna Marcolin:

Like I used to happen several times a week. I mean, a lot. I

Anna Marcolin:

think that's a lot. But today, it doesn't happen as much, but

Anna Marcolin:

it does happen. I just told you about my orthopedic surgery hip

Anna Marcolin:

thing. I mean, it happens and it comes up on you. And you're

Anna Marcolin:

like, Oh, you just oh

Hilary DeCesare:

my gosh, me on it. Kill

Anna Marcolin:

it. This is This is life work for all of us. It's

Anna Marcolin:

live work. So yeah.

Hilary DeCesare:

All right. Well, as we wrap, I just want to

Hilary DeCesare:

say, again, everyone, you get these awesome tips. But take a

Hilary DeCesare:

moment, like think about how this is resonating with you in

Hilary DeCesare:

your own life. And look at that one micro action step that you

Hilary DeCesare:

could take. And again, we always say, you know live now, love now

Hilary DeCesare:

relaunch now into that next best version of you. And this is what

Hilary DeCesare:

we what we talked about today could be that first step into

Hilary DeCesare:

that direction. So thanks, everyone, and we will be back

Hilary DeCesare:

again next week.

Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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Hilary DeCesare:

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