Meet Anna Marcolin, a psychotherapist and life coach with a remarkable story of overcoming depression and transforming her life. Her journey is a testament to resilience and the power of the human spirit. Anna shares how she battled clinical depression, found solace in running, and how this coping mechanism soon morphed into an addiction. But her tale doesn’t end there. She also unveils her unique approach towards helping clients break free from trauma and limitation, and how she inspires them to chase after the life they desire.
Our discourse also illuminates the power of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) for improving mental well-being. We share real-life examples and personal experiences to demonstrate how CBT can transform common thought distortions. This episode equips you with the skills to challenge your thoughts, retrain your thinking, and apply these techniques in your everyday life. Remember that it’s often the smallest actions that lead to the most significant changes.
Join us on this inspiring journey as we discover the truth in life, emphasize the present moment, and continuously strive for self-improvement.
About our Guest:
As a psychotherapist and life coach, Anna Marcolin has built a thriving private practice over the past 25 years. In addition to working with clients one-on-one, she has also spoken to companies across the country from billion dollar giants like Amazon to small businesses making a big impact. Anna has helped hundreds of people heal from trauma, break through limiting thoughts and confidently go after the life they want through her evidence-based, holistic approach. She engages clients and audiences quickly with her unique ability to connect with authenticity, empathy and humor. Anna is not your average therapist; she’s more like a personal trainer for your mind.
After raising 5 kids and more dogs than you can count, Anna has seen it all. With an unwavering belief that every human being deserves a deeply fulfilling life, Anna meets everyone where they are and gives them the tools they need to truly thrive.
Join our private Facebook community for BONUS content to ignite your own Relaunch: https://www.facebook.com/groups/232280334811612
Interested in being a guest on the ReLaunch Podcast or booking Hilary as a guest? Email us at hello@therelaunchco.com
Find Us on Your Favorite Podcast App – https://the-silver-lined-relaunch.captivate.fm/listen
The ReLaunch Your Magic Retreat is the ultimate event that will guide you in manifesting a heightened level of success even if your entrepreneurial spirit has fizzled out. Register now at: https://www.therelaunchcocourses.com/ReLaunch-Your-Magic
Transcript
All right, welcome back to the ReLaunch
Hilary DeCesare:podcast. And again, what I am delivering to you is potentially
Hilary DeCesare:new ways to think about some of the relaunches that are
Hilary DeCesare:happening in our lives and have some great, incredible takeaways
Hilary DeCesare:that you can start to actually incorporate into your life that
Hilary DeCesare:will inspire you, that will give you that like, okay, hey, if she
Hilary DeCesare:could do it, I can do it. And that's really where we are.
Hilary DeCesare:today. I have got an incredible, an incredible guy that I'm super
Hilary DeCesare:excited to bring to you. Her name is Anna Marcolin, and she
Hilary DeCesare:is a psycho therapist. She is a life coach. And she has built a
Hilary DeCesare:thriving private practice over the past 25 years. But in
Hilary DeCesare:addition to working with clients one on one, she's also spoken to
Hilary DeCesare:companies across the country, from those billion dollar giants
Hilary DeCesare:like Amazon to small businesses making a big impact. And that's
Hilary DeCesare:really what I love because she gets kind of she has the both
Hilary DeCesare:both worlds that she can bring perspectives and and I know that
Hilary DeCesare:there's a lot of our listeners that are in both. And Anna has
Hilary DeCesare:helped hundreds of people heal probably more like 1000s To be
Hilary DeCesare:perfectly is from trauma, breakthrough limiting thoughts
Hilary DeCesare:and confidently, confidently is the key go after the life that
Hilary DeCesare:they want through her evidence based, holistic approach. This
Hilary DeCesare:is what really ignites me to she engages clients and audiences
Hilary DeCesare:quickly with her unique ability to connect with authenticity,
Hilary DeCesare:empathy, and she's got a great sense of humor. She is not your
Hilary DeCesare:average therapist, which you will find today. She's more like
Hilary DeCesare:a personal trainer for your mind. And you know what we all
Hilary DeCesare:need that she's raised five kids. And you know what loves
Hilary DeCesare:those dogs. She's, she's seen it all at this point. And today,
Hilary DeCesare:she is going to give us so many great takeaways.
Hilary DeCesare:You're listening to the ReLaunch podcast and I'm your host,
Hilary DeCesare:Hilary DeCesare, best selling author, speaker and
Hilary DeCesare:transformational coach widely recognized in the worlds of
Hilary DeCesare:neuro psychology and business launches, which cultivated the
Hilary DeCesare:one and only three HQ method helping midlife women. Yep,
Hilary DeCesare:that's me to rebuild a life of purpose, possibility and
Hilary DeCesare:inspiring business ventures. Each week, we'll be diving into
Hilary DeCesare:the stories that brought upon the most inspirational
Hilary DeCesare:relaunches while sharing the methods and the secrets that
Hilary DeCesare:they learned along the way, so that you too can have not just
Hilary DeCesare:an ordinary relaunch, but an extraordinary relaunch.
Hilary DeCesare:Anna, thank you for being on the show. And I am pinching myself
Hilary DeCesare:because I have talked to you, I have admired you. And I know
Hilary DeCesare:that you are going to be the traitor we all need today in
Hilary DeCesare:this segment. So thanks again for being on the relaunch show.
Anna Marcolin:Thanks so much for having me, Hillary that was
Anna Marcolin:just a wonderful introduction. So I am a wow, I'm like a little
Anna Marcolin:bowled over by listening to you talk about me a little bit.
Hilary DeCesare:Yeah, fine to hear somebody actually, you
Hilary DeCesare:know, describe and you're like, oh my gosh, have I really done
Hilary DeCesare:all this? And yes, I did survive and thrive and I'm in your now
Hilary DeCesare:you're delivering you're like now bringing it to people that
Hilary DeCesare:are so hungry to really understand how to uplevel
Hilary DeCesare:themselves and get past some of the things that have really and
Hilary DeCesare:hey, I'm raising my hand right now, the relaunches that go down
Hilary DeCesare:in our lives that we think like are unsurmountable
Hilary DeCesare:insurmountable, and be able to tackle them. So I would love to
Hilary DeCesare:have you start with your own personal journey of what the
Hilary DeCesare:most significant relaunch has been for you so that our
Hilary DeCesare:listeners can really appreciate where are you Where are you
Hilary DeCesare:started? And what happened?
Anna Marcolin:Yeah, so thank you for that question. So my
Anna Marcolin:relaunch was a personal one. It was one that started 20 Wow,
Anna Marcolin:started in well started in 2004. So yeah, it's gonna be 20 years
Anna Marcolin:coming up.
Hilary DeCesare:How fast it goes, right. It's
Anna Marcolin:a little scary. I'm dating myself by saying that
Anna Marcolin:because I was in my early 30s married with three small
Anna Marcolin:children. I I was married to the man that I went to college with
Anna Marcolin:my boyfriend all through college since I was 18 years old had
Anna Marcolin:been together. And I continued to date him when I moved to
Anna Marcolin:Chicago. He was at a job that only took could take place in
Anna Marcolin:the, in Chicago in the trading business, and I was in graduate
Anna Marcolin:school here, got married at 24 and had my first child at 25.
Anna Marcolin:When I was 31, I woke up it was almost like my therapist at the
Anna Marcolin:time said you're a little young for this, but you're going
Anna Marcolin:through a midlife crisis. I will show you
Hilary DeCesare:what that what did it look like for you?
Anna Marcolin:A clinical depression, a clinical
Anna Marcolin:depression, barely able to get myself out of bed. And it also
Anna Marcolin:it was just interesting. It's there's two pieces to it, it was
Anna Marcolin:depression. And also a total over involvement in chronic I
Anna Marcolin:became, I started running after my second was born and always
Anna Marcolin:been an athlete. But I got back into running my two old my two
Anna Marcolin:sisters were running together, I'm from the Washington DC area,
Anna Marcolin:they lived in the area. And they I was a little jealous because
Anna Marcolin:they were running all these five and 10 K's together. And I could
Anna Marcolin:not imagine somebody could run six miles, I just could not
Anna Marcolin:figure that out. So of course, me being the competitive person
Anna Marcolin:that I am. I wanted to start doing the same thing as them.
Anna Marcolin:And so I really got into running. So the way I dealt with
Anna Marcolin:waking up one day, and realizing what have I done was a running
Anna Marcolin:all the time. It was like an addiction for me. And at the
Anna Marcolin:same time I became very depressed. The depression was
Anna Marcolin:would build and build and build to the point where I could
Anna Marcolin:barely run because my legs felt like tree trunks. So there were
Anna Marcolin:two things that were going on that was escaping my life,
Anna Marcolin:basically running in metaphor.
Hilary DeCesare:Yeah, it's running. What I want to get back
Hilary DeCesare:to the running was a metaphor. But I want to ask you, a you
Hilary DeCesare:know, it's interesting, because people are taught that exercise
Hilary DeCesare:allows for the endorphins. And that helps with depression, and
Hilary DeCesare:it keeps you but yet this wasn't this this wasn't happening. As
Hilary DeCesare:you said it felt like two tree trunks. It was not, it wasn't
Hilary DeCesare:doing what it's supposed to do. And you said it was more like,
Hilary DeCesare:it feels like it was more like an addiction. You were like
Hilary DeCesare:doing it and doing it and you had to go out and do it. What
Hilary DeCesare:was happening here,
Anna Marcolin:I was staying distracted from the feelings
Anna Marcolin:that were deep inside of me that were trying to percolate to the
Anna Marcolin:surface. And I would not allow it. So if I could just run and
Anna Marcolin:run six days a week and run hard, I could stay distracted if
Anna Marcolin:I could stay focused on goals with a 10k or a half marathon or
Anna Marcolin:a marathon that I could say distracted from what was really
Anna Marcolin:going on deep down inside me but that I was so afraid to look at,
Anna Marcolin:I knew that I couldn't even imagine or Fathom at that time
Anna Marcolin:that I knew I would blow up my life. If I if I sat still and
Anna Marcolin:thought and felt my feelings. I knew what would happen at some
Anna Marcolin:level. So just keep on running. Just keep on running. And what's
Anna Marcolin:interesting to me and I always push back when I hear this in
Anna Marcolin:podcasts, especially a podcast from an I say to exercise is a
Anna Marcolin:very important piece of mental health. And I push all my
Anna Marcolin:clients therapy and coaching to engage in some form of exercise
Anna Marcolin:body movement. However, for someone like me who is moving
Anna Marcolin:into a clinical depression, that I could only be diagnosed by a
Anna Marcolin:therapist or a psychiatrists. People like me, those people
Anna Marcolin:need something different. They need to continue to move their
Anna Marcolin:body but they need psychotherapy and they may need meds. And for
Anna Marcolin:me, what ended up happening years later was I went on
Anna Marcolin:antidepressant was a game changer for me and my mental
Anna Marcolin:health as you
Hilary DeCesare:as you're going into this for those listening.
Hilary DeCesare:What is the difference between clinical depression and
Hilary DeCesare:depression?
Anna Marcolin:Yeah, good question. So there many of us go
Anna Marcolin:through situational depressions, we maybe there's a depression or
Anna Marcolin:postpartum depression, postpartum baby blues, that
Anna Marcolin:could be a situational depression. Now that is hormonal
Anna Marcolin:II related but it's one that maybe lasts for, you know, two
Anna Marcolin:weeks, three weeks, four weeks after a baby is born. But then
Anna Marcolin:we start to go back to air quote, normal our normal selves.
Anna Marcolin:A clinical depression is you must meet the clinical criteria.
Anna Marcolin:In the DSM five, which is our Bible and my field Diagnostic
Anna Marcolin:and Statistical Manual of psychiatric illnesses. You must
Anna Marcolin:meet criteria, there's about nine you have to meet about six
Anna Marcolin:out of nine, to receive a diagnosis of a major other mood
Anna Marcolin:disorder, which could be a major depressive disorder can be a
Anna Marcolin:bipolar, it could be cyclothymic, all different types
Anna Marcolin:of mood disorders out there. So I saw somebody and received the
Anna Marcolin:diagnosis. I already knew I had it, but I received a diagnosis
Anna Marcolin:and that's what put me on the med. So most of us go through
Anna Marcolin:situational depression, life is not a bowl of cherries, right?
Anna Marcolin:We're gonna get sad and down from time to time. But we have
Anna Marcolin:coping skills in place that we can deal with it. For many of us
Anna Marcolin:it is going for a run, maybe it is going to a yoga class, maybe
Anna Marcolin:it is going getting a massage, maybe it's going and seeing your
Anna Marcolin:therapist once a week. And we call those people, which is
Anna Marcolin:mostly what we are the worried well, where are the worried?
Anna Marcolin:Well, we're pretty weak, we were able to or well, huh, does that
Anna Marcolin:make that up that?
Hilary DeCesare:It does, but I want to I want to ask a
Hilary DeCesare:question. Because you're right, we all have bouts of things that
Hilary DeCesare:happen that causes us to be depressed. And there's a lot of,
Hilary DeCesare:and I love that you're approaching this in such a way,
Hilary DeCesare:there's a lot of, you know, bad information out there, we just,
Hilary DeCesare:you got to think positive again, you got to be happy and right.
Hilary DeCesare:And, you know, last week, I was running on fumes. We've had a
Hilary DeCesare:lot of amazing things happening. But I was just, I was really
Hilary DeCesare:burning it hard. And I woke up one day. And you know, I had
Hilary DeCesare:gotten this email that something I thought was gonna happen
Hilary DeCesare:wasn't gonna happen. And I just was like, you know, I just went
Hilary DeCesare:into this. And we had to, we were supposed to have a launch
Hilary DeCesare:in December, and just everything just, we can't make it happen.
Hilary DeCesare:There's too many things that we're still addressing it was we
Hilary DeCesare:pushed it off to January. And I was just like, oh, like, ah, and
Hilary DeCesare:I sat there. And I thought, you know, it's okay. To be exactly
Hilary DeCesare:where I am right now. Yeah, there's a lot going on. I don't
Hilary DeCesare:need to sit there and say everything's great. Like, I
Hilary DeCesare:didn't write
Anna Marcolin:it. Anyway. So I
Hilary DeCesare:go back to you know, as a concept that I know,
Hilary DeCesare:you know, the three HQ and part three HQ head, heart, high self
Hilary DeCesare:in the, in the heart. You know, there was a lot of times that I
Hilary DeCesare:didn't feel like I liked myself at all, there was like, you
Hilary DeCesare:know, hey, going on deep inside me. And to go, you know, jump
Hilary DeCesare:over the, the Grand Canyon to go to love. I couldn't do it. Like,
Hilary DeCesare:it just wasn't possible, I had to kind of go to like, first so
Hilary DeCesare:I could go from not like, really hate to like to love. But I want
Hilary DeCesare:people to really realize, and sometimes it takes a day to get
Hilary DeCesare:over. Sometimes it takes more. When do you feel because I want
Hilary DeCesare:people to feel like they, you know, they've got to give
Hilary DeCesare:themselves grace, that they don't have to, you know, I
Hilary DeCesare:talked about the tune in process of being able to pop yourself
Hilary DeCesare:out when you need it, like through the day. And I had to do
Hilary DeCesare:that when I was feeling like, you know, crap. Things are
Hilary DeCesare:really not that great right now. I could do it, I could do a tune
Hilary DeCesare:in, boom, pop myself up for one meeting. And I was like, okay,
Hilary DeCesare:but I'm still not there. I was I brought myself for that quick
Hilary DeCesare:moment. But when do you know that it's more serious than this
Hilary DeCesare:is just a phase. I
Anna Marcolin:think when you are you get off your routines,
Anna Marcolin:and you find that you're struggling, you're not
Anna Marcolin:motivated. And you're struggling to get back into what it is that
Anna Marcolin:normally brings you joy. So we do look at you know, we call it
Anna Marcolin:an Adonia. It's a loss of join us a loss of joy in life. So
Anna Marcolin:that's something that we really get very concerned about when we
Anna Marcolin:were starting to think and maybe that's a clinical depression.
Anna Marcolin:Now, there was a time period, it must go on for a certain period
Anna Marcolin:of time. It's not just a week, it's not even two weeks, it's
Anna Marcolin:longer than that there's there's a pattern that you can't seem to
Anna Marcolin:pull yourself up out of. That's where we started to get
Anna Marcolin:concerned, there's something a little bit more serious going
Anna Marcolin:on. And is that when is that is that when you knew with your
Anna Marcolin:legs feeling like they were trunks, and you said that
Anna Marcolin:running became a metaphor.
Hilary DeCesare:What what happened? You
Anna Marcolin:know, it's interesting, I was a therapist
Anna Marcolin:at that time, I had not been coaching, but I had just started
Anna Marcolin:so I was my early 30s I just started my private practice. And
Anna Marcolin:I at some level was the worst client or patient because I
Anna Marcolin:ignored all of what I knew was going on deep inside of me
Anna Marcolin:because I just couldn't bear it I had been in therapy with with
Anna Marcolin:someone who was not a fit. It's interesting because I'm a
Anna Marcolin:therapist, and I had had terrible therapy experiences
Anna Marcolin:myself, which is like anybody who tells me they've had Baddeck
Anna Marcolin:therapy experiences I'm like, all right with you. I'm right
Anna Marcolin:there with you, girl, because I'm there too and I'll get there
Hilary DeCesare:I gotta tell you I have two young my divorce
Hilary DeCesare:I went to and I did some things and oh my gosh, I ran into some
Hilary DeCesare:really bad ones. I'm like home.
Anna Marcolin:I'm like, and if I'm a therapist, and this can
Anna Marcolin:happen to me and I'm you know, I'm your colleagues and my poor
Anna Marcolin:other people out there who come to me like yeah, so that's
Anna Marcolin:that's a we could have another discussion about that, but But
Anna Marcolin:yeah, but I think that so for me at the time, I just went into
Anna Marcolin:this deep, deep denial. And I also denied my depression. I saw
Anna Marcolin:what was happening, but I thought to myself, well, I'm
Anna Marcolin:still running. I'm still running five days a week. I It's okay,
Anna Marcolin:it's not that bad. It's not that bad. It just was. I didn't want
Anna Marcolin:to see what was happening. And so, you know, it wasn't till
Anna Marcolin:this is probably a year later that I finally was really
Anna Marcolin:struggling with getting out of bed. And the only reason why I
Anna Marcolin:got out of bed was because I had three people that I had to get
Anna Marcolin:off to school and I had to feed that. But I didn't
Hilary DeCesare:have those gaily. Were you a single mom at
Hilary DeCesare:that point? Had you gotten divorced? No,
Anna Marcolin:I was not. No, I was depressed and aren't very
Anna Marcolin:unhappily married. And everybody around me knew it. My, my
Anna Marcolin:parents, my in laws, my husband at the time, everybody knew
Anna Marcolin:something's up with her. There's something wrong. There's
Anna Marcolin:something wrong with her. But you know, it's interesting,
Anna Marcolin:because I would hear people would say to Me, Physician, heal
Anna Marcolin:Thyself. Take the heal yourself. Take, what are you gonna do
Anna Marcolin:here, go take care of yourself. So I was trying, but I was
Anna Marcolin:trying to not use meds which that was changed a lot within me
Anna Marcolin:at that, from 20 years ago was that even though as a therapist,
Anna Marcolin:I was really not really a big proponent of anti psychotropic
Anna Marcolin:drugs, even though I knew it worked for other people. Because
Anna Marcolin:I had worked inpatient psych, I'd worked in partial
Anna Marcolin:hospitalization for eating disorders. That was my specialty
Anna Marcolin:at the time, eating disorders. I thought, well, I'm different. I
Anna Marcolin:don't I don't need meds like they do. Okay, I'll be the first
Anna Marcolin:to admit I, I thought I was a little better than I'm stronger
Anna Marcolin:than that. I don't need meds. i My patients love my patients.
Anna Marcolin:But I don't need meds like they do. And that was what came out
Anna Marcolin:of the story of my divorce was, I was humbled. And the shame
Anna Marcolin:came in. The guilt came in when I walked away from my marriage.
Anna Marcolin:And everybody in my family and friends walked away from me. And
Anna Marcolin:I mean, everyone because I grew up in a very devoutly Catholic
Anna Marcolin:family. And you know, yep, you don't get divorce unless you're
Anna Marcolin:being hit. My mom said, unless you're being hit or eaten
Anna Marcolin:alcoholic, you'll get divorced. And it just no one cared. I
Anna Marcolin:mean, no one cared. So it was, you know, take care of yourself.
Anna Marcolin:Clean yourself up. And that's what I tried to do. But I also
Anna Marcolin:was not really proponent of meds for me, which looking back now
Anna Marcolin:was just, I don't know, it was my younger self, my younger
Anna Marcolin:self.
Hilary DeCesare:Well, you now say rocking the skin you live
Hilary DeCesare:in? Yeah. Right. So you ended up taking the medication, which
Hilary DeCesare:literally changed everything for you
Anna Marcolin:changed everything. For me, it allowed
Anna Marcolin:me so it's interesting, because at the time, I thought God was
Anna Marcolin:playing a cruel joke on me because I was now had to go back
Anna Marcolin:to work. Because I needed health insurance. I was living losing
Anna Marcolin:my health insurance because I was my husband at that time
Anna Marcolin:period, the insurance. So I was in my practice, part time I
Anna Marcolin:needed to now filled out with another part time or full time
Anna Marcolin:job. I didn't know how I was going to do it. I went back into
Anna Marcolin:the hospital system into counseling, and I got a job
Anna Marcolin:working with cancer patients in a very large oncology clinic.
Anna Marcolin:And here I was in the throes of the Depression. And at that
Anna Marcolin:time, I was on meds. And if I was not on those meds, I don't
Anna Marcolin:know how it would have been able to have served my patients
Anna Marcolin:because all my I was referred all the they're all stage four
Anna Marcolin:terminal patients and their families. I would not have been
Anna Marcolin:able to have done that work going through this horrible
Anna Marcolin:depression, horrible, bitter divorce. If I wasn't on meds, it
Anna Marcolin:got me through it created a floor that I would not follow.
Anna Marcolin:So it was game changing and life saving for me and I wanted to on
Anna Marcolin:I was on it was on it was sertraline, Zoloft. I was on it
Anna Marcolin:for about five years. And I have not been on it since but thank
Anna Marcolin:God for those drugs. Lamesa.
Hilary DeCesare:So you're saying that you're not on
Hilary DeCesare:anything now? No,
Anna Marcolin:I haven't been on since probably 2000. Not? Not
Anna Marcolin:nine that would
Hilary DeCesare:you say that you call yourself you know that
Hilary DeCesare:that personal trainer for the mind? You know you what happened
Hilary DeCesare:there that you were allowed to that you felt I can I no longer
Hilary DeCesare:need to take the medication
Anna Marcolin:I was doing so I just Well, I had been in
Anna Marcolin:psychotherapy twice a week for a years.
Hilary DeCesare:Hello. Psychosis tell us psychotherapy
Hilary DeCesare:versus regular therapy. What is that? It's
Anna Marcolin:the same it's the same, they're interchangeable.
Anna Marcolin:So psychotherapy sometimes when I say therapy, people have said
Anna Marcolin:to me So are you a physical therapist. That's the only
Anna Marcolin:reason why I say that because I'm not a physio or physical
Anna Marcolin:therapist and a psychotherapist counsellor, mental health
Anna Marcolin:person. I was so I was on meds and the meds helped me do the
Anna Marcolin:deep work that I would probably not have been able to have done
Anna Marcolin:if I had not been on meds because it depression can go so
Anna Marcolin:low that sometimes you your brain. You can't think straight
Anna Marcolin:to even do the deep work. So it's on meds with a psychiatry
Anna Marcolin:Here's who's a colleague of mine that I knew. And he was he was,
Anna Marcolin:you know, managing that and, and prescribing my antidepressant
Anna Marcolin:started like 20 went up to visit 50 than 7575 is too much, we're
Anna Marcolin:back down to 50 stayed at 50 for a while, then 20 or 25 for a few
Anna Marcolin:years. But that allowed me to be in therapy twice a week, and
Anna Marcolin:really do that deep dive work that I needed to do family of
Anna Marcolin:origin stuff started to come up in a child work that I needed to
Anna Marcolin:do. And that allowed me to be more available to my children
Anna Marcolin:and my patients, and my clients in my office, because I was
Anna Marcolin:doing the work I needed to do, and then it freed me up. So here
Anna Marcolin:I can be available emotionally available to my children. And in
Anna Marcolin:the moment. And in the present moment I can listen to I could
Anna Marcolin:do a family session with someone who's in hospice now and die, I
Anna Marcolin:could completely pour myself into into that. Because I was
Anna Marcolin:taking care of myself.
Hilary DeCesare:I love that. And so how are you doing this?
Hilary DeCesare:What exactly is this personal trainer of the mind? Like, what
Hilary DeCesare:are the steps? Yeah, so like, you start working with somebody,
Hilary DeCesare:and you're finding that they're stuck. They're just not happy
Hilary DeCesare:with their life right now? What do you do?
Anna Marcolin:So you right, so to answer your previous question
Anna Marcolin:I didn't, I was did not directly answer it. All this time, I had
Anna Marcolin:been using the skills of cognitive behavioral therapy
Anna Marcolin:with my clients. And that's something that I learned in the
Anna Marcolin:90s when I was first in practice. And actually, first
Anna Marcolin:when I worked in eating disorders, I had to learn this
Anna Marcolin:therapy because I was going to be running groups on CBT with
Anna Marcolin:the patients and I very quickly had to learn it and since then
Anna Marcolin:have advanced certifications in it. That's where I'm a personal
Anna Marcolin:trainer for the mind, because most people don't realize that
Anna Marcolin:all of us and I mean, all of us have been helpful thought
Anna Marcolin:patterns. And we call them with thought distortion. So mind
Anna Marcolin:reading, black and white thinking catastrophizing
Anna Marcolin:situations, in a lance, we'd know how to disentangle our
Anna Marcolin:thoughts. We say there, we don't know how to not catastrophize
Anna Marcolin:because that's all we've done. So when I was going through my
Anna Marcolin:divorce, and I was on meds and stuff, and and in psychotherapy,
Anna Marcolin:I also knew about the skills of CBT, right, because I taught it,
Anna Marcolin:so had to once I started feeling a little bit better, I had to
Anna Marcolin:bring them in and deploy that.
Hilary DeCesare:For those that don't know about cognitive
Hilary DeCesare:behavioral therapy, just very, like, just give us a little bit
Hilary DeCesare:of what that is. So
Anna Marcolin:what the work I do with with clients is we all
Anna Marcolin:have thoughts, or we have thoughts that don't help us. So
Anna Marcolin:while we're here, a client and I do this with my coaching
Anna Marcolin:clients, too, I think everybody needs to learn this. So I'll
Anna Marcolin:have a client say to me, you know, I had that presentation,
Anna Marcolin:that staff meeting and you know, I really, I really should have
Anna Marcolin:said this I really should have said that so here we go. These
Anna Marcolin:are thought distortion scores are staying the shoulds and what
Anna Marcolin:I say to my clients is don't show it on yourself right so we
Anna Marcolin:what we do especially women will do this we beat ourselves up for
Anna Marcolin:showed this show that or our client will say something to me
Anna Marcolin:like oh my god, you know, I had this me and my my best friend,
Anna Marcolin:we got into this little dumb little argument with a thought
Anna Marcolin:it was dumb argument, but now she's mad at me. I know she's
Anna Marcolin:mad at me. She's not texting me back. I think it's over. So
Anna Marcolin:first of all your mind reading? Number two, your show is good.
Hilary DeCesare:Do we claim to be mind? reader's? Yes. Yes.
Anna Marcolin:You know, we mind read that it's over. She's
Anna Marcolin:really mad at me. And then and number two are totally
Anna Marcolin:catastrophizing. So I teach my clients, how to reframe the
Anna Marcolin:thinking. And one of the takeaways for your listeners is,
Anna Marcolin:if this cut well not if when it comes up for you, because it
Anna Marcolin:will come up for you always look for the evidence of your
Anna Marcolin:thoughts. So we can retrain our thinking and that's why I'm a
Anna Marcolin:personal trainer for the mind, because everybody needs to know
Anna Marcolin:this. These are wonderful life skills.
Hilary DeCesare:Avid, have your thoughts? Yes. So true. Is it
Hilary DeCesare:reality or is it your perspective? Yes,
Anna Marcolin:right. Right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's,
Anna Marcolin:I mean, every day I do this, you know, and I never get bored of
Anna Marcolin:it. Because I love to see people light up like, Oh, I do do that.
Anna Marcolin:You're right, I do that. There's a way that's just how I've
Anna Marcolin:always thought like, I was a black and white thinker that
Anna Marcolin:because of the family within which I was raised, very
Anna Marcolin:religious, either that's a sin and that's not a sin. It's
Anna Marcolin:either do it this way, or this is the way to do it. You don't
Anna Marcolin:do it that way. There's no gray in life. And I learned CBT I
Anna Marcolin:realized, oh, wait, there's a lot of gray. There's a lot of
Anna Marcolin:gray and lives. It's not this or that. That was my I was like,
Anna Marcolin:Whoa, that my mind was blowing up like really? So that shit
Anna Marcolin:that has changed me as a person. It's changed my whole worldview,
Anna Marcolin:really? Hey, there's Greg.
Hilary DeCesare:Oh, so many of us be and especially when you
Hilary DeCesare:talk about your beliefs, right beliefs are 100% true to you? I
Hilary DeCesare:like that you're saying even today you're challenging
Hilary DeCesare:yourself with where it you know, where's that thought? Where did
Hilary DeCesare:that come from? Is that really? Is that really 100%? Do black or
Hilary DeCesare:white? Or is there is there that gray,
Anna Marcolin:even even something as simple as I was out
Anna Marcolin:to dinner with a friend and I was strength training. So
Anna Marcolin:fitness is a huge part today continuing a huge part of my
Anna Marcolin:life. And it's about strength training, and I was doing it I
Anna Marcolin:was kettlebell. This kettlebell six months saying, and I hurt my
Anna Marcolin:hip. I was out to dinner with her eating sushi. And I'm like,
Anna Marcolin:she's a physical therapist. And I was telling her that I did
Anna Marcolin:something. I think I need a hip replacement. Oh, my God, I think
Anna Marcolin:I need to replace but I can tell she finds it right in front of
Anna Marcolin:her. She goes, Don't doubt. You don't have immunity to
Anna Marcolin:everything. But she goes, you're fine. It was she was getting
Anna Marcolin:annoyed. She goes, she goes and you're totally catastrophize and
Anna Marcolin:you don't need it. She could calm down. It was like, go see
Anna Marcolin:the orthopedic surgeon. I mean, I love her. But she's, you know,
Anna Marcolin:she's very blunt with me. But I needed to hear that. I mean, she
Anna Marcolin:kind of talked me down. She's like, go see Dr. Peak surgery,
Anna Marcolin:you're probably fine, because you don't need a hip
Anna Marcolin:replacement. She's like, do you see what you're doing? Like, oh,
Anna Marcolin:yeah, I am really catastrophize worry that I'm turning into an
Anna Marcolin:old lady. And I was fine. All I had to do was get on the foam
Anna Marcolin:roller, and I was fine actually canceled my orthopedic surgery
Anna Marcolin:appointment. So there you go. I still do it.
Hilary DeCesare:I mean, but I liked that you're giving us you
Hilary DeCesare:know these? Are we catastrophizing it? Are we
Hilary DeCesare:saying black white instead of the gray? I mean, this is we do
Hilary DeCesare:this, right. And so when you're working with clients, and for
Hilary DeCesare:people, you know that that are starting to feel like Oh, my
Hilary DeCesare:God, I am doing that, right. I do. catastrophize. And I have a
Hilary DeCesare:dear friend who is now not traveling, because she's so
Hilary DeCesare:freaked out about being on an airplane. And I, you know, I
Hilary DeCesare:kind of pushed her and like, well, what, where did that stem
Hilary DeCesare:from? Like, what happened? How do you we acknowledge that we
Hilary DeCesare:are doing this? What besides just saying, Hey, we got the
Hilary DeCesare:evidence. Alright, I now know, well, I feel this way because,
Hilary DeCesare:but then what can we do? What's the next step? After we're like,
Hilary DeCesare:Oh, my God, what she said, that's totally me. I'm doing
Hilary DeCesare:that.
Anna Marcolin:Right. There's, there's some different tactics
Anna Marcolin:that I use with clients. So let's say for a mind reading,
Anna Marcolin:that's a good one where you say, I know that she's not me. I
Anna Marcolin:know, she thinks about me. So so look for the evidence, well,
Anna Marcolin:okay, so we do a whole we call them thought records. So I take
Anna Marcolin:a client through what we call a thought record, and we have we
Anna Marcolin:really kind of deep deconstruct the entire situation. Sometimes
Anna Marcolin:when we deconstruct a situation with somebody, and I'm on the
Anna Marcolin:other end as the coach or the therapist going well, okay, so
Anna Marcolin:your mind. Okay, mind reading, isn't there? Is it true? Do you
Anna Marcolin:think it's true? Well, well, okay, now that I do the whole
Anna Marcolin:situation, maybe, okay, maybe I'll was mind reading a little
Anna Marcolin:bit, you know, so going through a thought record really does
Anna Marcolin:take sort of takes a helium out of the balloon of our thinking,
Anna Marcolin:in this case, mind reading, such
Hilary DeCesare:a great way to say it and deconstruct again.
Hilary DeCesare:Yeah, well, deconstruct
Anna Marcolin:the situation. It really is helpful. And if
Anna Marcolin:someone is still holding on to the thought, and they're saying
Anna Marcolin:know what, Anna, no, I, I know that you I know, you're saying
Anna Marcolin:this to me, and okay, but you know, I, I'm intuiting. And I
Anna Marcolin:really do believe that she's mad at me. So here's what you have
Anna Marcolin:to do. Number two, you need to go talk to her. Hey, are you mad
Anna Marcolin:at me? I feel like when I said that to you the other day, and I
Anna Marcolin:was challenged in my own practice and my own learning of
Anna Marcolin:CBT to do this myself. So as an example, I had firmly believed
Anna Marcolin:that one of my co workers was mad at me because we said I was
Anna Marcolin:kind of snarky with her. I made a snarky sarcastic comment on
Anna Marcolin:lunch one day, we're sitting in the staff room eating and you
Anna Marcolin:know, she was she was a friend of mine outside of work as well.
Anna Marcolin:And she sort of didn't, I didn't think anything of it at the
Anna Marcolin:time. But the next day at work, I noticed she was a little cool
Anna Marcolin:towards me and a little aloof. And I thought, Oh, I know why,
Anna Marcolin:because I said that to her. And I should have said that I
Anna Marcolin:probably crossed a boundary and she's annoyed with me. And I
Anna Marcolin:held on to that for the whole week. And at same time, I was
Anna Marcolin:learning CBT so I knew that and I would say I was telling myself
Anna Marcolin:I was really holding on to my belief that mind reading that
Anna Marcolin:she was mad at me. So number two, I had to go confront her
Anna Marcolin:because all the the thought record wasn't working. And I did
Anna Marcolin:it. It was so hard for me to do. I was nervous. I felt like it
Anna Marcolin:was being weird about it. But I said hey, you know, Susie, I
Anna Marcolin:made that comment to the day you're mad at me. It's just
Anna Marcolin:like, What? What are you talking about? And I'm like, well, that
Anna Marcolin:made that covenant let us know. Oh, she was oh my gosh, just
Anna Marcolin:like Anna No, she's like Okay, she's like, my husband is being
Anna Marcolin:audited right now. We just got we just got to work the IRS.
Anna Marcolin:We're being audited. She's like, No, she's okay. It had nothing
Anna Marcolin:to do with me.
Hilary DeCesare:Dry this is, this is so amazing because yes,
Hilary DeCesare:this happens to us where we just were the mind reader. We're
Hilary DeCesare:like, oh my gosh, this, this happened not even two days ago
Hilary DeCesare:for me as well, where I was like, oh my god, I heard
Hilary DeCesare:something. And actually, I read it, which is even worse, right?
Hilary DeCesare:Read into text messages, emails, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, this
Hilary DeCesare:thing's about to blow up. It's not gonna happen. I wonder what
Hilary DeCesare:happened, what was going on? And I went through the whole like,
Hilary DeCesare:like you said, I like and I kept going deeper and deeper.
Hilary DeCesare:Finally, I'm like, wait a second. instead. I didn't let
Hilary DeCesare:myself I didn't have time to waste because I was heading out
Hilary DeCesare:of town. So I literally picked up the phone. I said, What did
Hilary DeCesare:you mean by this? Good, totally misinterpreted, the whole thing.
Hilary DeCesare:And I sat back and I'm like, Thank God, I
Anna Marcolin:did this. There you go.
Hilary DeCesare:It would have you know, spun me out, just
Hilary DeCesare:spiraling
Anna Marcolin:because you're spiraling. Right. And that's
Anna Marcolin:what happens. We spiral and it was hard to do that. That was
Anna Marcolin:far but it was so it was just a paradigm shift in thinking for
Anna Marcolin:me. When I did that. It's
Hilary DeCesare:so solid. I love you said that. But Anna, we
Hilary DeCesare:got to wrap. Yeah, I know. Where can we send everyone so that
Hilary DeCesare:they can get to know more of these awesome strategies that
Hilary DeCesare:you have and and start to like, follow you? Where can they go?
Anna Marcolin:Thanks so much. So you can find me on the
Anna Marcolin:socials, tick tock and Instagram at askannamarcolin all one word
Anna Marcolin:lowercase, you could find me on LinkedIn @AnnaMarcolin and my
Anna Marcolin:podcast, the Badass Confidence Coach podcast where we're
Anna Marcolin:talking about mental health wellness coaching tips every
Anna Marcolin:week. So I'd love to have you all come in there and listen and
Anna Marcolin:give me feedback. I'd love to hear from all of you. So thanks
Anna Marcolin:for having me, Henry. And
Hilary DeCesare:well, we're also going to have all of this
Hilary DeCesare:in the show notes. And I am so excited because I'm also going
Hilary DeCesare:to be on your show coming up. So looking forward to that. But
Hilary DeCesare:again, thank you for being here. Thank you for giving us
Hilary DeCesare:permission, to allow ourselves to feel our feelings to
Hilary DeCesare:understand where they're coming from, understand these thoughts
Hilary DeCesare:that can truly sabotage us and give us these incredible tips to
Hilary DeCesare:actually say, Wait a second, where's the evidence? Where is
Hilary DeCesare:the evidence? So what a great show and everyone out there?
Hilary DeCesare:Really think about this, think about what you're doing in your
Hilary DeCesare:own day to day and are you allowing things to just bring
Hilary DeCesare:you down? Were one call one, you know, just just taking that next
Hilary DeCesare:step to say, Hey, what did it mean? What was really going on?
Hilary DeCesare:Are you okay, here? And then it's so amazing. And how often
Hilary DeCesare:do you find out percentage wise that what you thought actually
Hilary DeCesare:wasn't the case? Like you said with this gal? Like no, she was
Hilary DeCesare:like, no, no, no, actually, this is how often does that usually
Hilary DeCesare:happen? Today?
Anna Marcolin:Not as much as it used to happen all the time.
Anna Marcolin:Like I used to happen several times a week. I mean, a lot. I
Anna Marcolin:think that's a lot. But today, it doesn't happen as much, but
Anna Marcolin:it does happen. I just told you about my orthopedic surgery hip
Anna Marcolin:thing. I mean, it happens and it comes up on you. And you're
Anna Marcolin:like, Oh, you just oh
Hilary DeCesare:my gosh, me on it. Kill
Anna Marcolin:it. This is This is life work for all of us. It's
Anna Marcolin:live work. So yeah.
Hilary DeCesare:All right. Well, as we wrap, I just want to
Hilary DeCesare:say, again, everyone, you get these awesome tips. But take a
Hilary DeCesare:moment, like think about how this is resonating with you in
Hilary DeCesare:your own life. And look at that one micro action step that you
Hilary DeCesare:could take. And again, we always say, you know live now, love now
Hilary DeCesare:relaunch now into that next best version of you. And this is what
Hilary DeCesare:we what we talked about today could be that first step into
Hilary DeCesare:that direction. So thanks, everyone, and we will be back
Hilary DeCesare:again next week.
Hilary DeCesare:You've just heard another episode of the ReLaunch podcast.
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